Saturday, July 5, 2008

Open Forum: G0y's - New Identity or Shameful Gays?

There is a growing and controversial movement of men who call themselves G0y. They are men who are attracted to men but have grown disgusted of "Gay" male culture and anal sexual practices. Below is a snippet from a G0y website, which can best explain what this new identity and movement is all about...

"G0YS (Spelled with a ZER0) are guys who find men physically & emotionally attractive, but (for whatever reason) are offended with the stigmas that currently define the 'gay community' in the public psyche. G0YS recognize that the prominent facets of the "gay-male" community tend to embrace every gender-bending act, fetish & affectation; --And include those things in the general specter of the image that "gay" projects publicly. The easiest to observe example is the commonly used acronym "GLIT" (sometimes "GLIB") meaning Gay, Lesbian, Intersexed, Transgendered (or BiSexual). The fact that "GAY" is grouped with "Intersexed & Transgendered" is evidence to our primary point showing what the term "GAY" has morphed into. G0YS reject those associations completely & consider it a form of gender-prejudice against men who love men.

Behaviorally: Anal-sex is innately shunned by g0ys - as it represents the ultimate form of sexual disrespect whether male/male or male/female. Other distasteful stereotypes include (but are not limited to): Effeminate behavior, extreme passivity (like cowardice) & drag. G0YS don't call other men "girl", "bitch", "queen", etc. You probably get the idea.

What G0YS embrace is masculinity in it's purest forms. Many G0YS are GAY, or (usually)-BI identified men (who might wear those labels IF they were not aware of the G0Y movement). Many G0YS are STRAIGHT identified (involved in marriage or exclusive relationships with women) also - but have these deep feelings for masculine affection nonetheless (whether ever acted upon or not). Many of these men have had 1 or more sexual encounters with other men (not anal) & lack the language to describe those feelings & relationships. The term "gay" simply encloses too large a group & offensive associated stereotypes. G0YS place friendships at the top of their proverbial "list". Some of those friendships deepen to a level that is so intimate & personal that sexuality often becomes an element; -- & strong, invisible cords of love, respect & extreme-discretion cover what is an intensely personal thing. The reputation of the flamboyance, promiscuity, filth & bizarre cross-culture of the term "gay" - is seen as an affront to g0y relationships." (http://www.g0ys.org

G0y identified people have become increasingly visible on "Gay/Bi" communities and forums, and not only self-identify as G0y but are critical and even demeaning of those who identify as "Gay."

Please feel free to weigh in about the G0y's versus Gays phenomenon. Is this a new identity or are these men just ashamed to embrace their sexuality?

97 comments:

missnomered said...

Not a new identity, since it's basically based on bashing others.

For example: gender non-conformity may not be your flavor, but what's so wrong with that? Ditto for anal sex. That website was pretty homophobic, sexist (since it regards femininity as inferior to masculinity), and transphobic, not to mention a strange obsession with the (supposedly repulsive) sexual practices of others. The lady doth protest too much?

Like, I mean, there are sexual things which don't really tickle my fancy, but you don't see me putting up websites about how those things are sick and wrong.

Yeah. Not amused.

Queers United said...

I agree with you Miss, I feel the website is sexist and homophobic. I think one can be gay without engaging in anal sex, not all gay men like anal sex. Being gay is about being physically and emotionally attracted to someone of the same-sex, the specific sexual practices have nothing to do with the orientation itself. I don't see why they need this label, why not just call yourself a "masculine gay man who does not want anal sex" they are still gay but that is their preference, no need to bash others who are "effeminate" or who enjoy anal sex.

Wonder Man said...

This isn't a new identity, these are gays who are not comfortable with themselves.

Anonymous said...

I think it may be an "identity" because as We've blogged about before,"Self Identities" are self chosen. I have to say it is also abhorant to me that Any Queer in Any guise is ranting against other queers when there is such a preponderance of others Hating on us. For it to come from the inside seems like quite a stupidity. However we also have to be aware that if we ourselves don't want to come accross as beind as ignorant as them, we have to pay attention to our own dialogue with these folks. This makes me remember when I was a young Queer and just comming out, and how hard it was for me when an "elder" talked about "internalized Homophobia". It took a long time for me to get it and I speculate that these guys might be even tougher nuts to crack! So even though they sound really dumb right now, the Fey Pollyanna in me wants to give them education, not return bashing for their stupidity. Believe it or not I used to be a radical fairy In Your Face Politico! I guess I still am: just tempered with age. Luvsya Jofish

Sh@ney said...

The perception of gays being nothing but over sexed, non masculine and incapable of feeling is the weapon most often used by our heterosexual insensitives.

All these g0y's (goofs) are doing is fueling the fire that has burned for far too long.

Every person no matter their gender or sexual orientation is unique. The term Gay does not define who or what we are. What define's us is our character, our inner person.

Effeminate men do not choose to act that way, it is a greater part of their character, just as we do not choose to be gay. That does not make them any less a person.

I think the 'g0y' philosophy is the biggest case of verbal diarrhoea I have come across.

My advice, stop the character discrimination. g0y's are no better than those who stereotype the queer community in the first place.

Who's the oxymoron?

Blockade Boy said...

...On the other side of the equation, we have the radical queers who who heap scorn on any gay man who isn't an effeminate drama queen. Because he's trying to "pass."

And now we have these g0y idiots to deal with. Hey, people should feel free to hang out with whomever they feel comfortable hanging out with. Whatever. But at the end of the day, I think they need to realize that we're a very diverse group, and we need to show a united front if we're going to make any kind of progress in this country. The religious conservatives could care less what sort of sex we have, or whether or not we're "masculine." They hate us because we're gay. That's it. And worrying about particulars isn't going to help any of us.

To steal a phrase from Tracey Ullman's Cameron Diaz impression, these g0ys "are really sad... and not amazing!"

Dave said...

This is what all this identity politics has gotten us. A lot of little splinter groups. Why can't you just be who you are without having to worry about what other people like to do. I'm gay. I like some things. I don't like others. What difference does it make except when it comes to finding someone to do those things with? This is all silly and it's why after all this time and with a majority of hte public on our side we still can't get a measley little employment nondiscrimination act through Congress. The differences are minor and personal. We need to stand together and not fall into all this identity bullshit. Labels don't matter. People matter and equal protection under the law matters.

presetyourjet said...

I echo the comments above me. missnomered pretty much said what I wanted to say when I went to their website. And in that order too.

I love the queer community cos there's so much diversity. While that doesn't create an always happy family, it's what makes the queer community so great. I just wish people would see it that way, instead of "this diversity is tearing us apart!" kind of way.

RobbieP said...

So-called g0ys bear a lot in common with the equally problematic "androphile" as developed by author Jack Malebranche (see jackmalebranche.org) In his book "Androphilia", Malebranche heaps scorn on the gay community. The author, who is in a 10-year relationship with his "compadre", rejects the gay identity,minority status and any association with liberal politics that seems to be associated with the LGBT community. Among some of his claims are: the gay community encourages victimhood so that "chequebook revolutionaries" like the HRC can provide jobs for themselves, that gay men spend too much time worshiping divas and not enough time acting like men. He also says that being gay is in fact a choice and that we should have the balls to admit it. According to Malebranche, real oppression and violence against gays is over. he argues that any desire for hate crime legislation is "thought policing".
Mr. Malebranche has cultivated quite a following and his book has sold very well. Apparently it is the "stigma" of effeminacy that keeps masculine gay men from gaining complete societal acceptance. This notion seems to have struck quite a chord with his readers who feel that it is the nelly queens who make it difficult for more traditionally masculine homos.

Whether one identifies as a g0y, an androphile or anything else it seems that days of queer solidarity are over. That makes me sad.

Queers United said...

RobbieP thanks so much for your post. I actually saw this book at B & N and was considering purchasing it, it sounds interesting. I won't buy it now after seeing how it sounds completely homophobic and anti- everything I hope to accomplish Queer Lib wise. I am a masculine gay guy and sometimes find myself struggling with my identity because of the broad brush painted on the gay community. Just because I am masculine and identify as such does not for a second make me want to have less rights, or to distance myself from those who are effeminate. We gotta unite!

Anonymous said...

the g0ys are an old old phenomenon - the classic misogynistic gay man who prides himself on "passing" and pulling the fleece over straight folks' eyes. I disagree with those thinking that these people are uncomfortable with their sexuality - I think their problem is that they are uncomfortable with the uppity everyone-else.

OK by me if the g0ys don't want to associate with GLBTIQ people - we don't want folks without decent home training.

NancyP

Drew said...

I had a few run ins with the men that call themselves g0ys. With the exception of one all my other runs have not been good. One would say i am a fag and going to hell and will catch aids. Other conversation started out wit him says he g0y not gay and he would say he wants only a conserative, manily, masculin man that does not use drugs like all the fags do, does not smoke like all thefags do and is relgious which all fags are not. So i questioned this guy he says all gay mane are lib i said will i am a gay am and i consider myself moderate. He said i a lier i have to be lib cause i am gay and he went on that anal sex is wrong accourding to the bible and i will get aids and die and goto hell. I have debated this in a few other forums before and i have gotten mixed responses. What i want oknow is there any gaymen who have talked to men that say they are g0y and have there been any negetive words exchanged.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Yeah, I consider G0ys to be a legitamite identity and have already suscribed to it myself. Growing up and learning I was attracted to guys didn't bug me a bit. What DID bug me, and a lot, was that the guys I liked would want to have anal sex. Because that's what we were "supposed" to do. And before you say " nobody said you do", turn on your t.v. and just GLANCE at ANY Pride parade. Go online to nearly ANY "gay" website and you'll see anal sex peddled around as the ultimate sex act. That DOES NOT represent me, not even a little.

I thank God for the birth of the g0y identity. Leading young people away from the sluaghter that is the "gay" lifestyle, because anal sex is still the largest vector threw which STDs and H.I.V. can be spread and all the safe sex campaigns in the world won't make H.I.V. any less of a death sentence.

THe list goes on and on but you really just have to read and understand for yourselves. That or you can belittle an identity that addresses a legitamite concern for a large amount of people without warrant.

Patrick said...

I note with appreciation that the blog owner got a couple of points correct that many gAys (and their apologists) cannot seem to grasp.

1) There is a growing and controversial movement of MEN who call themselves G0y.

It does not say 'a growing movement of gAys', so why are so many gays threatened? Do gays have the market on same gender affection locked up? I think not.

2) Kudos to the blog owner (further comments by Queers United notwithstanding) for actually quoting the g0y website.

Many sites and commentaries present gross misrepresentations and distortions of truth, which the blog owner went on, to my disappointment, to include themselves amongst.

The blog owner did err slightly when stating g0ys on gAy/bi communities and forums are "critical and even demeaning of those who identify as 'Gay' ". No, we are critical of certain behaviors and elements in the 'gAy lifestyle', not the gay community as a whole. Those elements, however, by their offensive behavior have dragged the entire gay community through the gutter. When the gay community make two strides forward, outrageous factions within the community set the community as a whole back a step. Despite this, many gays attribute their community progress to the extremists forcing themselves on society. Give me a break. Gays have been chanting the 'equality' mantra for 35+ years, paralleling the emergence of HIV; but has the community really done anything to change it's public stereotype? No. Instead it gets increasingly more bizarre and increasingly more vocal as it demands unconditional acceptance of the few rather than focus on and promote the mainstream qualities of the many.

If anything, g0ys actually defend those gays who are equally repulsed by the actions of the few that bring shame on the whole community. A common misconception is that the gay apologists seem to think that all homosexual and bisexual identified men celebrate the 'diversity' others attempt to shove in everyone's faces. I identified as gay for 28 years before discovering g0ys 4 years ago. I can say without a doubt that the factions that bring shame on the gay community have always been offensive to me. Using the term 'diversity' is just a perversion of terms to excuse and sugar-coat the repugnance and offensiveness of outrageous behavior, dangerous sexual activities and depraved fetishes. Nothing more.


Now, these commentors on this blog truly show their ignorance of the straightforward manner the blog owner presented his post and they immediately take the question of males (men) identifying as g0y as an attack on ALL gays. Thankfully there are plenty of straights, bi's and gays that truly understand and support the demographic that g0ys represent...those gAys that feel threatened by g0ys providing an identity for "non-'gay lifestyle'-identified-same-gender-attracted-men" think themselves too self-important. We're not speaking to you. We're seeking to distance ourselves from the minority in your community, their apologists and the 'lifestyle' of the clueless few - anonymous, emotionless sex, fleeting hook-ups, AIDS activists and their refusal to address sexual irresponsibility, bathhouses, porn companies that promote barebacking and the uninformed sheep that mimic in real life what they see on the screen, drug and alcohol abuse, campy and outrageous public displays, the poor examples being provided to youth just coming to terms with their sexuality, and so on.

They seem to hold the position that it is better for all gays to 'stick together', even if minority elements behave ridiculously and dangerously, bringing shame and hate on the entire gay community. Better to 'stick together' than to tell those a-holes to stop f-ing up the community for the majority?

That is why there is "...a growing and controversial movement of MEN who call themselves G0y."

Paul said...

Anyone remember the phrase "separate but equal?" What irks me is that gOy.org uses imprecise language which either intentionally or unintentionally creates friction. For example, generalizing anything, such as "gay lifestyle" or "gay community" is doing exactly the same thing g0y organizers don't want done to them, failing to "read the entire site" (as if there were an authority on all things gay) and recognizing that there are hundreds of sub-divisions of "gay" and what g0y is protesting is one aspect, about which there's still a wide range of opinion for people self-identified as gay.

There are men who won't kiss, who won't hold hands, who recoil at any feminine traits, who don't like anal sex, and the list goes on and on. To say that they still follow the "gay lifestyle" means that you didn't take the time to "read it all" and see that there is no unified gay community, only vocal parts and not so vocal parts, made up with as much of a blend of people as those who claim the label g0y.

If you're going back to the Kinsey scale and claiming all 1-5's as g0y, you're making another sweeping generalization.

And that's what has fractured what has been commonly called the "gay community" for decades.

Tolerance is a negative behavior. Gay people don't promote tolerance or diversity, they promote SUPPORT, which is a positive behavior. Support of the individual, not conformity to some "gay ideal" or "g0y ideal" since no one is ever going to be perfect or exactly the same.

Whether someone accepts the label "g0y" or "gay" or simply doesn't want to argue about it...fine, have your movement, growing or shrinking, if it serves to give you back your personal power which you feel has been stepped on by someone else's words, by all means do it. You are supported.

Loveandlight said...

I'll have to search and fumble for words to express what I would say. I have read the website, and I looked through a few forums where they talk about g0ys after reading the website. I could see it was the kind of thing you either love or hate. But I'm kind of on the fence. I have more sympathy to what g0ys say they are about than probably most, I just found the website to be kind of too much. It's pretty kooky in its tone, you know, and that's going to scare away a lot of guys who would be good to get signed up, IMHO. And most guys who don't want anal and think it's gross aren't going to get as hot and bothered about being agaisnt "teh buttsecks" as the guy who made that website. Who needs too be all obsessed like that, seriuosly?

But here's why I can relate, somewhat. Gay men who act "feminine" aren't really acting like women, I don't think, they're putting on a silly act, and a lot of those guys who act like that really hate women and aer terrible sexists. Yeah, you can say, "Oh, g0ys are gender conformists" but we all conform to something to some extent, and if you have a choice between conforming to the silly queens or acting more like how a guy in mainstream society generally acts, I would want to conform to the way regular guys act. That's how I like to act, and that's what turns me on in a guy. The "obviously gay" stuff makes me feel turned off. (And this is coming from a dude who doesn't even like sports!)

And I've seen and heard about a lot of very bad and stupid behavior from queeny guys who are into the scene. Maybe g0ys kind of go off the deep end, but I can understand what might a regular guy who is more conservative go off the deep end and wnat to make a whole new "thing". And if the queeny scene is all there is where you aer, then you'll probably run into a lot of homosexual men who will think you're fucked up if you're grossed out by anal sex and don't want to be doing that.

So I guess what I'm saying is this: if there was more of this "diversity" so many here are cheering for outside of a few "blue-state" big cities, then maybe g0y guys wouldn't feel the need so much to make this militant new thing to follow. I also think that g0ys probably won't ever really be much more than Internet posturing because that website will scare so many away.

Anonymous said...

For anyone who finds some of the g0y ideals appealing but is turned off by the rigid cultishness and angry self-righteousness, there is a very cool new Yahoo group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/g0yFreeSpeech/

or

http://tinyurl.com/5pf5fh

Loveandlight said...

Hey, Anonymous. Google killed Blogger's ability to do automatic hyperlink conversion (so much for "Don't be evil", I guess), so here's your URL converted into a hyperlink:

Check out the g0yFreeSpeech forum at the Yahoo Groups website.

Patrick said...

Everyone should also be informed that the g0yFreeSpeech group, as of the present, is a group that was started by a number of guys who take a g0y-lite approach. They profess that "anal" is ok for some and that g0ys should incorporate an acceptance of this 'diversity', which just makes them another branch of gAydom, and nothing g0y. They have engaged in some pretty harsh personal attacks on myself and other individuals and they do not cite any support for the www.g0ys.org website on or in their group. The reason they call it FreeSpeech is really because thus far, they have used it as a platform to slander and bash the movement and it's core members. Hopefully, but doubtfully, that will change in the future. There is also some pretty good evidence that their core posters are actually a group of anti-g0y posters from a few RealJock.com g0y topic forums masquerading as g0ys but muddying the true message. As it stands, they are not one of the groups that www.g0ys.org endorses, as they have rejected the site as an authoritative basis for the g0y foundational core beliefs, instead attempting to infuse their own brand of un-g0y-behavior tolerant g0y-lite mutation to confuse those looking for alternatives to gAy perspectives. As it says on my g0y-sanctioned group, Beware of Imitation Brands.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/g0yaltgroup/

Sanctioned groups that support the g0ys movement 100%:
http://g0ys.org/0nYour0wn.htm

Don't be fooled. Go right to the source, not some sound-alike deception.

Queers United said...

I am confused as to why so many different g0y groups exist.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

I can think of two reasons why so many g0y groups might exist.

The first is that the main g0y group is basically a central hub. Many other g0y groups serve g0ys from a specific region. (ie: TexasG0yz)

Another reason for the existence of many groups is the fact that many so called g0y groups are not officially endorsed by the main g0y website. Gay guys who are scorned by the main g0y group, for whatever reason, often take it upon themselves to form a group based upon what they believe g0y should be.

All g0y groups endorsed by the main g0ys.org website are listed here:

http://g0ys.org/initialize.htm

You can refer to this list for legit g0y groups.

Queers United said...

Ryan that sounds borderline cult if you ask me. Why does a group have to be sanctioned by g0ys.org to be considered an official and legit g0y group?

Mike said...

Oh, wow - nothing new. This supposed "movement" has reared it's head (pardon the pun) before and it's nothing more than a small group of self-hating, Republican queens who actually think they have to bend over (oops, sorry - pun again) to a sterotype to be homosexual. Whatever - what does one have to do to become a "g0y"? Close up shop? Does this mean that I also am not able to call a straight guy a "bitch" (as they so commonly do with each other)?

BTW, do these morons know that "goy" is also a commonly-used yiddish term to mean foreign or gentile? You would think that they'd do a little research, first. What idiocy.

Anonymous said...

We used to call this mainstream Gays, guys who were not part of the Gay Community, but rather just lived their lives like the rest of society. The prejudice exhibited by this new site is new, and is as disgusting as any prejudice. As to anal sex, to each his own, anal sex is not limited to gay men, and no one should engage in any sexual act they are not comfortable with. Sex is about intimacy and pleasure, and what consenting adults do is between them and those they do it with. Let them call themselves what they want, and do what they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone. Haven't we learned through the gay rights movement that tolerance and acceptance of everyone should be the ideal we are striving for. If it matters I am a gay man, not Queer, not G0y, I used to be involved with the Gay community, but now I consider myself mainstream, I just happened to be attracted to men. Maybe it's time we drop all labels, and just realize that we are all people, and what consenting people choose to do, is their own business.

Anonymous said...

As someone who considers myself a 'mainstream gay', I disagree that it's an equivalent. Just because I live in the suburbs, and don't have tons of gay friends doesn't mean I advocate the kind of exclusionary and veiled homophobic tone of what I saw on the G0y website.

Anonymous said...

well- a girl has to have a hairdo -of sorts -to be a girl...whatever f them

Ryan ReBoRn said...

I'm not going to respond to all the anonymous comments. When you man up enough to add your name to your post, do come back.

And Mike, you're thinking of goy (with an "o") where we're g0y ( with a zero). The zero replacing the "A" in gay to represent zero tolerance for the behavior.

Belittle the g0y movement all you want, it's not going to dissapear for you are any other disgruntled gay guy.

Ed said...

As a Homosexual Male, I am uncomfortable with many aspects of mainstream "Gay" society. But, I am still a 'Mo.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with non-sexual man-love, and many straight men, who are comfortable with themselves will admit it.

But to suggest that you have these "special" man/man freindships, while pursuing hetero sexual/romantic relationships is morally, and ethically wrong. I pity the het women who get mixed up with these "gay-lite" men. I personally don't share my man, and all the women I know feel the same.

I see the whole deal as secretive, and dishonest.

Anonymous said...

I'm not prolific with words, so I won't have the strong supportive evidence that so many on here do, but I think the g0y movement is just another way for closed-minded, conservative men-who-like-men to point the finger at people they feel repulsed by because that was what they were taught growing up. If we must label, I'm "mainstream." My partner and I have 4 children, we live in a mid-century suburban neighborhood, we have mostly straight friends, we work in corporate America, and we care deeply for others, no matter who they are. We're not religious, but we feel a spiritual connection to all living beings.

I understand categorizing oneself; I was a psychology major in college, and I know it is one way of finding acceptance. What I do not understand, however, is the desire to overlook and condemn those whose activism has helped us move forward. If we are to belittle the first pride marches of the '60s and '70s because they were spectacles of flambouyancy and promiscuity, then should we tell all African Americans to do the same with civil rights marches of the '50s and '60s? How else do we gain rights but to stand up together as one, embracing our differences, but with one voice to say "we're here, we're queer..." (queer used to just mean different) "...get used to it!" President Kennedy once said "If we cannot now end our differences, let us at least make the world safe for diversity." The g0y movement does nothing to make the world accept gays, but instead promotes shame and hatred for those who have fought and do fight for our rights.

Peace,
Rob in Indianapolis

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Ed, what two consenting adults decide to do in their relationship life is of no consequence to me. However, I'm also the type of guy that believes in pair bonding so I understand what you're coming from.


And anonymous, if the first pride marches were ANYWHERE near as honest a representation of the gay community as black protests were of the African-American community, gays and lesbians would have been acepted into society as nearly non-event as African-Americans and Asians.

Instead of that scenario all gay "pride" has done is to alienate itself as "different" from the rest of the society by parading outrageous promiscuity, flamboyant costumes, and a complete and utter disdain for anyone else.

This is what you call "pride":

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gOGRSFDBCvtzljDUgPdlScVTsBppvD-e8-LAjuVyRaEW69kYkpHYqMT2OmEdwokaI1hShax6PDJhCm_0M2zW0N2MVKuyF6VYQSauuJ8jtulZeCv2NUs/UNprideParades.html

And still you wonder what the big deal with g0ys is?

We're not closet gays and we're certainly not gay-lite. We're G0y. Meaning we respect masculenity and simultaneously disdain behaviors that debase it.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the article. I think the "gay community" is a new culture and has not yet "matured". You are only now seeing more long term relationships, marriage, more committed and long term relationships.
Gays are only just beginning to seek the rights they deserve.
I am gay and I do not ike going down to the "gay part" either. All it is a a bunch of gays in an area to have sex. Bath houses, parks to have sex, bars with porn, thats all it is.
I guess I would be considered a g0y...I don't like really feminate men, they annoy me and its fake...and I detest the fact that anal sex defines you as being gay. So yeah I agree with the article.

Alex said...

"I'm not going to respond to all the anonymous comments. When you man up enough to add your name to your post, do come back."

That's pretty funny, considering that the guy who started the g0y cult anonymously registered the g0ys.org domain name, and it doesn't appear that he ever posts using his real name. Any chance he'll ever "man up enough" to attach his name to his website and movement?

Ryan ReBoRn said...

I'd expect the main moderator to reveal himself about the same time the entire gay population puts away their vendetta for the g0y movement. For simply choosing a different way to live with same sex attractions.

How's that for tolerance?

Queers United said...

Ryan the vendetta is on the part of the g0ys who berate men who are effeminate and/or who like anal sex. One can be masculine and gay and like anal sex. The g0ys are obsessed with anal sex, and that seems silly. Sexual preferences are just that, just because one likes or does not like anal does not make their orientation different.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Actually, the g0y moderator posted quite an appropriate response to this on the main groups wwebsite. I got his permission to quote him so here it is:

By: G0y Veh


Straight-Acting GAYS????
0xymorons...

There's even a website for "Straight-Acting Gays". I've even visited
it. Sigh...
The entire "T0P/B0TT0M" paradigm is based on the "D0M/SUB"\"BUTCH/
FEMME" mentality.
Therefore, "Straight-Acting Gays" without any other delimiting
definitions to set them apart from the "Gay Community" are simply
"T0P IDENTIFIED H0M0S". A/K/A: "B0TT0MS 0N THE D0WNL0W".

Folly:
The believe that their failure to swing a purse nor talk with a lisp
makes them "Straight-Acting" .
"Excuse me ... Is that a dildo hanging out of your arse? I noticed
it was proudly labed by the 'B1TCH-B0Y' RUBBER C0RP..."

Fixes:
It's my belief that in order to act like a "man", that a guy needs to
stop acting like a proxy for a woman (& stop expecting his fellow man
to act in such a way for him). If the very locus of a guys sexuality
is face-down with another guy's d1ck up his "man-khunt", -- then what
does it matter that he carries a drill & pounds nails all week? I
know women who do that.

Revelations:
From the Arena to the Battlefield -- men have known since time began
that it's totally possible to love other men. What society has done
over the last 800+ years is obscure the fact that the most intense
M2M lov'n extends all the way to the genitals & can be done with the
highest respect, discretion & comradarie without a concern for using
barriers like condoms, nor spreading life-threatening diseases
without them. Simply: Don't treat your buddy for a female proxy; --
And don't arse-rape a defeated foe.
From a purely legal perspective based on natural law: There has NEVER
been an issue with the FACT that men can intimately bond with each
other on a physical level. Such a thing can do nothing but strengthen
a society. The Abomination of Law occurred roughly 800 years ago,
when the controlling Catholic Church (& the protestant offspring of
the harlot) twisted a Scriptural prohibition that forbade anal-sex --
into a prohibition against same-gender affection. Failure to
rightfully divide the context of Leviticus 20:13, -added to the rise
of a lawless "gay movement" in the 20th century mix in with media
bias & misrepresentation -birthed the clusterphuck of confusion that
grips society today. The very simple answer is: G0Y

Lauren said...

To each his own.

I think it's terrible and hypocritical to judge a group of people based on their identities, which is what I feel like "G0ys" are doing.

Identify however you choose. Just do so in a tasteful way instead of smearing others.

a said...

stupid as shit. gay community doesnt exist. 99% of the gay guys i know arent into any 'scene' any more than straight guys are into a straight 'scene'. the more colorful gays stand out and then somehow everyone thinks thats the majority. as far as im concerned, cruising, parades, and even gay clubs are a thing of the old-repressed-depressed queen gays of yonder years. the new generation, be it gay or straight, has very little to do with all the glitter and glam that sloshed around in the 70,80's and 90's. drag is dead, and the former 'scene' is graying and wrinkled.

using g0y is just some neo-con bullshit word. self-hating? maybe. more like prejudice douche bags who like labeling people different than them. the gay 'community' is stricktly political. and many like me believe if there are going to be gay parades than they should be marches.

all these tactics of dividing up the lgbt community are just efforts by conservatives, gays included, to divide up and make irrelevant political change.

at the other end of the lgbt 'spectrum' there exists the anti-g0y who is equally binary in thinking, counter productive and discriminatory. those who make it immposible for 'straight acting' (whatever that means) gays to be involved in the (political or otherwise) community. i have had trouble approaching other gays on an equal playing field, even when approaching like political goals because i do not share the same 'scene' or behavioral attitudes. i find a lot of this separatist chopping up of the word gay. people need to micromanage their little labels.

a said...

also, icing on the cake. men who fuck men and dont call themselves gay are like short men who call themselves tall. saying so doesnt make it so. unless its situational (desert island, prison, or absurd i.e.fraternity initiation) then its gay gay gay. i dont care if you call yourself g0y msm or any other fun little word, your insides are gay, sorry no special privileges because you dont like the term. no one is asking msm to wave a gay pride flag, but a rose is a rose by any other name.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Yeah, I agree with you, a. A butt phucker by any other name is still a butt phucker, right? No one's arguing that. But heres where we have an altercation, G0ys do not butt phuck. Ever (.)

The difference is like night and day.


Oh, and the "gay community" you're refering to isn't just "the scene" (else we wouldn't have said community). It's the collective of men who, probably against their own common sense, emasculate themselves and others with the butt phuck mentality. It's the community that promotes this as "full genital maturity" in gay porn, gay television shows and yes, even in gay pride. Theis butt phuck mentality is in fact so pervasive that telling a gay guy you don't enjoy anal sex might elicit the response of ,"Well, I don't think you're REALLY gay..."

Since the "gay community" (you and every other same sex attracted guy who may or may not enjoy anal sex) won't speak up against this obviously perverse fetish (the anus is NOT sterile), the G0y movement has taken it upon itself to become a cut above the rest. A community of men who DO take responsibility for the effects of their behaviors.

So don't worry about G0ys dissecting your precious lgbt 99% of the guys who suscribe stopped thinking for themselves long ago.

Now they're just playing follow the leader.

Dan Glenn said...

I think this is a legitimate emerging queer identity. Remember the old Kinsey scale, with exclusively heterosexuals at one end (a zero on the scale) and exclusively homosexuals on the other end (a six on the scale). I think that these g0ys are somewhere on that scale as a one or two.

Like all of us ‘coming out’ we devalue those systems that we perceive to oppress us, and let’s face it, the gay community really hasn’t embraced the bisexual (inter-sexual) group in GLBT (See Cass’ Model of Homosexual Identity Development: Level Five).

I think that we should make room for them at the queer table, but they’re going to have to respect our right to fuck as much as we need to respect their right not to.

a said...

wow, who said being gay was all about anal sex? so rather than being visible, and proving its not, you would rather pretend not to be gay.

its a self-hating gays group. rather than stand up and say, hey this visible 1/100th isnt the scene but they make the noise and get on tv, you decide, oh let it be and ill make another group? you cant change science. not all gays have anal sex, and they certainly dont need some group of frat boy douche queers tellign them they are g0y. its one thing to be a certain way, but its another to tell others how much better you are because you arent a certain way.

whatever, together we stand, divided we fall. i f*cking hate losers like these. they remind me of how far some still have to go to come out of the closet.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Now that's a progressive comment, Dan! I personally have a live and live attitude too. You're of the few gay guys who see the movement, understand what it's about, and then move on, understandibly.

"A", on the other hand, still has it in his head that he has the authority to decide what people can call themselves.

How far in the closet would I be if I came out as G0y? You'd probably start to sweat a little...

Queers United said...

Ryan - I have no problem with gay guys (g0ys) who don't want to have anal sex. The problem I have is with the holier than thou attitude and the berating of those who do enjoy anal sex. You do not have a live and let live attitude. You are here criticizing gay men who enjoy anal sex. Why not just call yourself g0y or whatever and not berate those who are fine with the label gAy.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

I'll believe you don't have a problem with G0y identified guys when you stop refering to g0ys as gay.

What you're doing here is trying to make g0y some kind of gay subculture. Sub culture = inferior to "mother" culture. Yeah, I think what we have here is the pot calling the kettle black. The G0y identity was created partly to ESCAPE that sort of generalization.( i.e: Bears, Drag Queens, G0ys, Butch, Flamboyant, Str8-acting)

It's not condescending no much as seperatist. As in G0ys top priority is to be SEPERATE from gay, because we feel it neccessary. And that's our choice.

Being seperate has nothing to do with being higher or lower than the other so that complaint flies out the window.

How about bringing back some quotes of mine that are "holier than though".

Queers United said...

There are way too many holier than thou quotes so here is one...

"Since the "gay community" (you and every other same sex attracted guy who may or may not enjoy anal sex) won't speak up against this obviously perverse fetish (the anus is NOT sterile), the G0y movement has taken it upon itself to become a cut above the rest. A community of men who DO take responsibility for the effects of their behaviors."

Ryan ReBoRn said...

I asked and you delivered.

But would you mind putting that quote in proper context for our readers. Here's a section from the poster I was replying to:

"also, icing on the cake. men who fuck men and dont call themselves gay are like short men who call themselves tall. saying so doesnt make it so. unless its situational (desert island, prison, or absurd i.e.fraternity initiation) then its gay gay gay. i dont care if you call yourself g0y msm or any other fun little word, your insides are gay, sorry no special privileges because you dont like the term. no one is asking msm to wave a gay pride flag, but a rose is a rose by any other name."

I'll stop trying to hold my self and my beliefs so high when you and yours stop trying to drag the G0y movement down.

Call it holier than though if you want but last I checked having a sense of self worth is a positive quality.

Anonymous said...

"the anus is NOT sterile"

May as well lash out at those damn cocksuckers and pussy phuckers, because mouths and vaginas aren't sterile, either.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

That is quite the illogical arguement. Are you trying to say that contact with human feces is parallel with contact with human human saliva/vaginal fluid?

It's not like I'm making such an outlandish observation here. Whether it's contact with feces of a male or feces of a female, the danger posed to both partners is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than other sexual contact. 20 times higher.

And if you don't believe me or statistics just look at history. When societies dispose of waste poorly (as in dump it in the streets) it creates a massive health hazard. Making possible epidemics like that of 1665 possible. An epidemic that wiped out over 17,000 people. (nearly 20% of the city's population)

The name of the epidemic that devestated London, world renown as the Black Death.

Queers United said...

Ryan - Anal sex is natural, humans and animals engage in this behavior. If you want to say anal sex can't lead to reproduction and therefore is unnatural than so is oral sex and handjobs. So g0ys are thereby unnatural because they are not spreading their seed to females. It is nonsense. Anal sex is not dirty, if people take care of themselves use protection and lube. In partners if they both know they are clean and have been tested there is no need to worry about disease.

If you don't want to have anal sex, that's perfectly fine, but don't spread your gospel because others do enjoy it and are normal and healthy.

DeZaun said...

g0y... what can I say, I love a lot of there ideals, a focus on masculinity, spirituality, and love. However there is also the focus on anal sex. I don't care if two people get off by cutting each other up with serrated blades, so long as it's consensual, and they both enjoy it. None of us really has to right to belittle other people's beliefs, no matter how stupid they may seem, but we're going to do it anyways, even though we shouldn't. That said, g0y, great concept,shacky foundation, but bad name (I mean SERIOUSLY g0y? wtf, someones needs to change that, how do you even pronounce it) and a bad focus on the gay community, AKA, your community. Because let's face it, no mater what you say, g0y was bred out of the fires of the gay community, and if it wasn't, then why so much focus on them, and why the name the name that's only a letter shy of being gay? Love the concept hate the hatred.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Right, if anal sex is natural, why the high infection rate for STDs(almost 20 times that of other sexual contact) and HIV, of all people infected gays/bi men account for 53% of infection. (out of the whole population.) That number is UNREAL, considering the gay population is currently a minority at 10% of all men.

The full story here:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/08/02/hiv.cdc/

But to highlight the big points:

"About 56,000 people became infected with HIV in the past year, which translates to about 40 percent more cases than officials had estimated, said Dr. Kevin Fenton, director of the CDC's National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD and TB Prevention."
"According to the report, 53 percent of new HIV infections occur in homosexual or bisexual men."

53% of total infection is a pretty big majority. It's been said earlier that not all gay men have anal sex. That is undoubtedly true but, then again, most do. So it should come as no surprise that gay/bi men account for such a large chunk of HIV infections.

On the inherent danger of anal:

http://www.slate.com/?id=2126643

"Why does this matter? Because anal sex is far more dangerous than oral sex. According to data released earlier this year by the Centers for Disease Control, the probability of HIV acquisition by the receptive partner in unprotected oral sex with an HIV carrier is one per 10,000 acts. In vaginal sex, it's 10 per 10,000 acts. In anal sex, it's 50 per 10,000 acts. Do the math. Oral sex is 10 times safer than vaginal sex. Anal sex is five times more dangerous than vaginal sex and 50 times more dangerous than oral sex. Presumably, oral sex is far more frequent than anal sex. But are you confident it's 50 times more frequent?

A CDC fact sheet explains the risks of anal sex. First, "the lining of the rectum is thin and may allow the [HIV] virus to enter the body." Second, "condoms are more likely to break during anal sex than during vaginal sex." These risks don't just apply to HIV. According to the new survey report, the risk of transmission of other sexually transmitted diseases is likewise "higher for anal than for oral sex," and the risk "from oral sex is also believed to be lower than for vaginal intercourse."

The common denominator in all of this is ONE sexual act. G0ys aren't asking anyone to join a monastary or have themselves castrated. We want guys to stop with just ONE dangerous sexual act. Save thousands of lives, and all that jazz.

What the hell is so wrong with that?

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Dezaun, this is why G0ys is spelled with a "zero" (from the main site:

"Why 'G0Y' -- spelled with a ZER0? What's up with that? Because the g0y movement was created as a departure from stereotype; -- A term was needed that had some meaning behind it, while being simple enough for people to remember; -- plus stir some curiosity. Because the movement also was designed to eviscerate abusive religion (primarily fundamentalism in it's many forms), the term needed to have foundations in Scripture as well (Because there are now "gAy affirming churches", the term needed to confront sloppy theology that supports "everything gAy" -- including Anal). How was this all accomplished? Read on...

Ancient Hebrew, (the language the Torah & rest of the Old Testament was written in), - is an amazing language. In its original written form, it has no vowels. They are inferred. If we were to adopt the same technique for English, the words:
gAy
gUy
gOy (In Hebrew, the term "goy" applies to a non-Hebrew person -- foreign national)
... would all be spelled: G Y; & the reader would place the vowel upon speaking based on context. Well, since English is NOT Hebrew, people might not "get it". However, something else also came to light ... and that was the fact that the Apostle Paul wrote that G0D chose the "thing which is N0T" to "NULLIFY things which are". He basically explained that G0D used the power of a ZER0 to establish His new covenant by canceling out the written code that stood in opposition to us. This worked out well, because by inserting a '0' between the 'G_Y', - the "A" in "GAY" was essentially zeroed out (see ... N0 Anal) and the new term formed was 3 characters & looks like it should be pronounced "goy" (a Hebrew term that rhymes with "toy" & fits context perfectly) However, this new term is not really designed to be spoken, but rather EXPLAINED. So you see, this new term has some intellectual backing & some rich history!"

Queers United said...

Ryan - I could list tons of diseases one can get from oral and/or vaginal sex as well. Maybe you should just remain celibate? But wait, there is always cancer from pollution and from animal products that you probably eat. Stop judging others and live your life however you choose. This blog is pro-queer and pro-anal sex, and pro those who don't want it. So please stop bashing others.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

That's a common arguement. Comparing things with vastly different levels of danger and claiming they're equal. ("Some people suffocate in their sleep so I know you g0ys don't sleep") That sort of mindset is ridiculous and you know it. There is neccessary risk(i.e: Driving a car to work) and unneccessary risk(i.e: Playing Russian Roulette). It's obvious the risk of playing Russian Roulette far out weighs any pros, as the incidence of death is 1 every 6 times.

But since you're not here to discuss with rationality, I guess it doen't matter. But the next time you get the urge to encourage a disscusion about a group that is inherently opposite of wht you're promoting here, just don't do it.

Save yourself a lot of grief.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Once again, there is risk in every sexual act, but, as I pointed out earlier, the level of riskvaries vastly between them. Anal sex being the riskiest sexual act. Whether it occers between a man and a female or a man and a man is of no incidence. You run a greater risk for getting any STD through anal sex than any other sex act.

From the aforementioned site/study:


" These risks don't just apply to HIV.
According to the new survey report, the risk of
transmission of other sexually transmitted diseases is
likewise "higher for anal than for oral sex," and the
risk "from oral sex is also believed to be lower than
for vaginal intercourse. "

Anonymous said...

Something tells me Ryan has to have the last word on this one no matter what. Oh well...I do live and let live, so if he ever crosses my path, I will show him and any other g0y the respect I wish he and others would show me. I feel that no matter whether I have good-old butt phucking sex with my monogamous partner of 3.5 years, the vast majority of Americans don't really care. Show others respect and one day you shall receive it in return. I'm not sure the g0y movement has yet to accept that yet, but maybe I will be happily proven wrong...

Ryan ReBoRn said...

The last word thing is the result of being from a large family combined with my young age. Pay it no mind.

I believe respect is earned, not just freely given.

Earn my respect and I will respect you. I expect the same of my friends for me.

Lauren said...

Okay...so...what was the point of this entire discussion/argument? For one person to say they don't believe in anal sex [in a very aggressive way, I might add] and for another to defend anal sex? Is that all we got from it? Okay, got it.

Ryan--I really hope that you re-evaluate your approach to this topic because you are really quite a turn-off, and not because of your viewpoint but because of your delivery. I'm sure there are many g0ys out there who believe just as fervently in your point as you do, but handle the explanation and defense much better than you do. If you want to continue to have open, educational and progressive conversations about the g0y movement, consider removing the hate speech and disapproving father-like superiority. No one is willing to listen to what you have to say when you're telling them that their lifestyle is disgusting and shameful.

Also, in regards to this comment:
And if you don't believe me or statistics just look at history. When societies dispose of waste poorly (as in dump it in the streets) it creates a massive health hazard. Making possible epidemics like that of 1665 possible. An epidemic that wiped out over 17,000 people. (nearly 20% of the city's population)

The name of the epidemic that devastated London, world renown as the Black Death."


Forgive me if it's not what you meant, but Black Death was a plague originating from a disease carried by rats that were brought to the European coast via ships from Asia. Had nothing to do with public sewage systems or the spread of disease via human feces. I did a research paper on this topic for my 10th grade history class last year, so my information is solid.

None of us really have a problem with your belief or movement [and those that do should also reconsider their argument, as a characteristic of the gay community is tolerance of others' ideals], it's your delivery. You are, in fact, exhibiting a "holier than thou" ["thou" means "you," Ryan, it is not "though"] attitude and it brings an embarrassing stigma to the movement you represent.

DeZaun said...

Lauren I give you a standing ovation for your well written piece, you took all of the words out of my mouth. Thank You

Patrick said...

Re: Queers United August 2, 2008 post...

An experiment:

Google the term "gay sex"

Google the term "g0ys"

Now tell me who appears to be obsessed with ANAL!

Patrick said...

Re: Dan Glenn August 8, 2008 post:

You got it partially correct, except that g0ys don't have to be only a 1 or 2 on the Kinsey scale. I consider myself only attracted to men, but I reject anal sex, drag queens make me want to vomit, gay parades set us back decades...

Guys like me spent 28 years at the queer table, thinking there was no other option and I had to pigeonhole myself into a 'community' and lifestyle that 'celebrates' every aberration and fetish under the sun. No thanks. 4-5 years ago I discovered g0ys and I am happy I finally can push my chair away from the queer table and walk away, knowing I am not alone and part of the real community I had always been searching for.

Patrick said...

Words like tolerance and 'live and let live' are thrown about without really considering the ramifications. If every single person in the world was either celibate or monogamous exclusively with one partner there might be some validity for a lack of concern of the actions of others, in private or otherwise.

Because the actions of ALL of us, especially sexual, ultimately DO affect everyone else we and our subsequent partners come in contact with, no matter how slight...it is asinine to say 'what someone does in private doesn't affect me or us'.

This is cut-n-paste directly from the "Real
Jock" site:

U.S. HIV RATES 40 PERCENT HIGHER THAN REPORTED
Very bad news hit the stands last weekend just before the start of the International AIDS Conference in Mexico: Rates of U.S. HIV infection are 40 percent higher than previously reported. Even worse: Men who have sex with men represent 53 percent of all new HIV infections.


What do you want to bet those 53% new infections are primarily due to anal sex? Pretty good odds I would bet for sure.

Queers United said...

"4-5 years ago I discovered g0ys and I am happy I finally can push my chair away from the queer table and walk away, knowing I am not alone and part of the real community I had always been searching for."

This makes me think of the so called "Ex-Gay" movement. A simple re-wording would show why.

4-5 years ago I discovered Jesus and I am happy I finally can push my chair away from the queer table and walk away from the homosexual lifestyle, knowing I am not alone and part of the real community I had always been searching for.

Dodus said...

My problem with g0y is that the movement is based on stereotypes, how can you separate your self from a community that is to diverse to be summed up in a few words. The only thing that all gay men have in common is that they like men, and I'm sure even that's debatable. The fact that you all are so focused on the negative factors in gay men's lives, only reinforces the insecurities that you all seem to have. If you want to make what you do stick, and become strong, stop focusing on what others do wrong, and instead focus on what you do right.

Anonymous said...

When I say 'live and let live' and 'show respect for others,' it's not that I don't have an opinion of what I think can or should be taking place, but I'm not going to deride others for the way they live their lives. The irony is that the g0y movement brings in a lot of Christian references, and somehow tries to align themselves with passages in the Bible.

I work for a chuch (although I'm not a Christian), and let me tell ya, you can make passages in the Bible say whatever you want them to say; there are so many conflicts between the various books that you have to look at Christianity (and any other religion for that matter) from a whole and what it's about. To Ryan: Jesus didn't only show respect once someone else did what he told them to do; he showed compassion and empathy for all in hopes that they would follow. He taught people to be leaders in compassion, not followers. They had free will to choose to do whatever, but he did not call others hateful names and tell them to start showing him respect before he would do the same. So how can g0ys spin it around and hold everyone to a double standard?

So one is a disgusting creature who spreads disease if you have anal sex? No! It's just another example of an extreme example from reality getting all the news, like the far left and the far right on cable news channels. Most people are happily in the middle and don't really label themselves as liberal or conservative, but the extremes want you to. Each side will show gross examples of how associating with the other side is equal to death. Same with using HIV/AIDS statistics to put down all gay people who have anal sex. Come on. Yes, there are more cases of HIV/AIDS than they originally thought, yes gay men make up half of them, and yes most of that is through unprotected anal sex. But does the majority of the gay male population have HIV/AIDS? No. You know why? Because it's about the choices you make in how you practice the sex you want, not the fact that you have sex. I don't have statistics, but again, you can make statistics say anything you want.

I fully agree with Lauren above and commend her well-written response. Why are we here arguing about whether to have anal sex or not? Don't want to have it? Great! My partner and I only have anal once every two or three months and fully satisfy ourselves with other forms the rest of the time. But I'll be damned if I reject people for having it more often. Do what's right for you and don't judge. Quit bashing each other over what kind of sex you like and whether a proud bunch of guys and gals wants to march down the street in neon green short-shorts and boas. Good for them and good for you for not doing it. Let's all live our lives with a little more compassion, hope and understanding.

Rob (the same as most of the other Anonymous posts above).

Jim said...

G0ys are just another group of people with the existential position, "I'm OK, You're not OK." Shoot 'em all.
I am not into the so-called "gay scene." I don't go clubbing, dress in drag, use terms like "girl friend" etc. I am basically what is called "straight acting." And I prefer other guys who are "straight acting." But I don't feel that I have to call my self by some name other than gay. Nor do I particularly consider myself to be superior or on the moral high-ground. For me, "I'm OK, You're OK." That settles it.

Anonymous said...

What needs to be fought is the notion that gay sex = anal sex. And what a lot of us desire and it seems to me sometimes even most of the gay population desires is a relationship where one is committed to taking care of and bettering the MAN in the other.

Bill Weintraub has a much better argument. Check out
http://www.man2manalliance.org/

OmahaGayVillage said...

This group is trying to create an identity. The GLBT community has grown up over the years, and in due time, so will this group, I hope.

Anonymous said...

Same gender Loving, here. Gay racism birthed this identity. The more gays and lesbians hate, the more people they drive away to form the nuclei of their own group.

So, the mother of lesbian identity is gay misogyny.
Gay and lesbian trans- misogyny created the transgender part.
And good old gay racism created same gender loving.

So, the plethora of identities is strongly based on gay and lesbian immorality and hate.

Naturally, they perpetuate it through exclusion, and often outright hate speech, as all too many prominent gay and lesbian leaders do still. reams of documented examples upon request.

so, maybe the shame is in the wrong place here....Just maybe.

Anonymous said...

Maybe this is a bit naive here, but why do there have to be labels at all?? Sure they make life simpler, but they also create walls.

Queers United, I think you have a problem with the idea that someone can be religious or conservative in their views. That does not make them bigots or stupid.

And Ryan Reborn, why does the g0y website have to use the term "fags"? That is a terrible word and will only drive people away and further apart.

We are all people and deserve mutual respect. Let's not forget that. I am seeing a lot of broad generalizations being made on both sides of this argument and it needs to stop if we are to make any progress as human beings living in this world.

That is all I have to say.

-Dan C.

Queers United said...

Dan where do I say religious or conservative people are bigots? There are many wonderful religious republicans. There are bigots on both sides of the aisle.

Anonymous said...

Coming from a Bi guy, I can tell you that I am GLAD there is a movement of guys NOT interested in the Gay movement. I have NEVER found gays accepting of me being bi..they are just Bi-phobic because I am a threat to their movement and rights. The thought that either a woman or a man is just as interesting to me in bed, and that my choice in partners is a CHOICE is quite upseting to most that want to identify as Gay.

I don't agree with all the ideals of the G0y site, but I completely understand wanting their own acceptance and their own place away from the fem guys which feem to permeate the gay community and create annoying sterotypes for the rest of us to deal with.

So, being that I feel quite discriminated against by the gay community, and find little to no support or BELIEF that I am bi and it is REAL, I APPLAUD this new movement and hope it will become a bit more inclusive, or have a bi like group spin off. I do hope it's effect will be to create a place, or new term or understanding of masculine men like men, like sports, and think women are sexy too. Gays are not the only ones that need acceptance and support from the world.

We're out there and we're tired of NOT being included in the Gay agenda. Hoorah for progress!

Queers United said...

I don't see this as positive or inclusive at all. First off many gay men are not feminine, and many gay people do accept bisexual people. Also g0y obsession with anal sex seems bizarre to me, and many gay men don't have anal sex. The queer community is inclusive and whether g0ys like it or not they are gay and queer.

Patrick said...

You just don't get it. Uninformed gays try to classify g0ys as a subset of the gay community.NO! We're NOT gAy and queer. G0ys can be heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual. Those are sexual orientations. gAy and queer, in the modern definitions, are lifestyle choices. As g0ys don't identify with the many of the choices, sexual acts and expressions of fetish behaviors common to the gAy lifestyle - we are in NO way the same. Besides, the 'queer community', as you so offensively call yourself, is but a small fragment of the entire MALE population. 40% of men identify as totally hetero...they are likely not going to identify with g0ys; likewise, about 9-12% of men identify as gAy. The demographic that g0ys represent, are not within these two segments. We represent the 48-51% of the rest of the MALE population. This means some hetero and homosexual men might identify as g0y, as in the case of myself. I am homosexual, but I oppose the many behaviors and fetishes in the gAy lifestyle that many gays think is 'required' for inclusion in the club. No thanks. Also, there are many heterosexual men who identify with the camaraderie and brotherhood aspects of the g0y philosophy but have no interest in sex with men. They are most assuradely NOT gAy. You say the queer community is 'inclusive' but the truth of the matter is the 'queer' community - when speaking of individual tastes and preferences - is very 'EXclusive'. It's never verbally spoken, but actions speak louder than words. The amount of abuse certain groups and individuals within your 'inclusive' community suffer under the guise of 'you're not what I'm into' is rampant. The 'IN' crowd of your community looks down on many men, based on their age, nationality, skin color, social or financial status, education, "stats", or a myriad of other 'criteria' for social acceptance. What's even more offensive is you cloak these exclusions with the premise of 'what you're into'...lowering the entire focus to the physical and sexual level.

G0ys seek to distance themselves from the gAy lifestyle, and only approach the hetero, bi and homosexual communities to reach those individual who may agree with our philosophy. That is our primary demographic.

Patrick said...

Queers United said...

Ryan that sounds borderline cult if you ask me. Why does a group have to be sanctioned by g0ys.org to be considered an official and legit g0y group?
July 27, 2008 8:21 AM

Because of the very reasons Ryan gave. Were you not reading? Anyone can create a group with the g0y name, but the name is not what makes the group. Believing in, supporting and promoting the basic foundational philosophies of g0ys.org is what makes a group or forum legitimate. By the way, the g0yfreespeech Yahoo group - a breakaway faction - and not endorsed by g0ys.org, which claims a more tolerant viewpoint is still languishing with only 33 members and no activity, while the official g0y groups keep growing daily. I guess there's not much demand for the g0y-lite approach. LOL.

Patrick said...

Mike said...

Oh, wow - nothing new. This supposed "movement" has reared it's head (pardon the pun) before and it's nothing more than a small group of self-hating, Republican queens who actually think they have to bend over (oops, sorry - pun again) to a sterotype to be homosexual. Whatever - what does one have to do to become a "g0y"? Close up shop? Does this mean that I also am not able to call a straight guy a "bitch" (as they so commonly do with each other)?

BTW, do these morons know that "goy" is also a commonly-used yiddish term to mean foreign or gentile? You would think that they'd do a little research, first. What idiocy.
July 30, 2008 5:12 PM

No Mike, you're the idiot. Your post shows quite clearly you didn't do your research and homework. Men like you are precisely what g0ys don't identify with and distance themselves from.

As for the g0y/goy spellings and definitions, g0y, from the Hebrew, also means "Nation", so, as a spinoff from that, g0ys is also a nation, a community of sorts. A new community, but still growing, still gaining popularity and NEVER going away.

From the g0y website, on the term "g0y/goy":

Why 'G0Y' -- spelled with a ZER0? What's up with that? Because the g0y movement was created as a departure from stereotype; -- A term was needed that had some meaning behind it, while being simple enough for people to remember; -- plus stir some curiosity. Because the movement also was designed to eviscerate abusive religion (primarily fundamentalism in it's many forms), the term needed to have foundations in Scripture as well (Because there are now "gAy affirming churches", the term needed to confront sloppy theology that supports "everything gAy" -- including Anal). How was this all accomplished? Read on...

Ancient Hebrew, (the language the Torah & rest of the Old Testament was written in), - is an amazing language. In its original written form, it has no vowels. They are inferred. If we were to adopt the same technique for English, the words:
gAy
gUy
gOy (In Hebrew, the term "goy" applies to a non-Hebrew person -- foreign national)
... would all be spelled: G Y; & the reader would place the vowel upon speaking based on context. Well, since English is NOT Hebrew, people might not "get it". However, something else also came to light ... and that was the fact that the Apostle Paul wrote that G0D chose the "thing which is N0T" to "NULLIFY things which are". He basically explained that G0D used the power of a ZER0 to establish His new covenant by canceling out the written code that stood in opposition to us. This worked out well, because by inserting a '0' between the 'G_Y', - the "A" in "GAY" was essentially zeroed out (see ... N0 Anal) and the new term formed was 3 characters & looks like it should be pronounced "goy" (a Hebrew term that rhymes with "toy" & fits context perfectly) However, this new term is not really designed to be spoken, but rather EXPLAINED. So you see, this new term has some intellectual backing & some rich history!

Patrick said...

Rob in Indianapolis said:

...If we are to belittle the first pride marches of the '60s and '70s because they were spectacles of flambouyancy and promiscuity, then should we tell all African Americans to do the same with civil rights marches of the '50s and '60s?...

July 31, 2008 9:30 AM


There were flamboyant and promiscuous protestors in the civil rights marches of the 50's and 60's?!

I must have missed that. All the African-Americans I saw marching looked fairly normal and commonplace...LOL.

Patrick said...

Anonymous said...

Coming from a Bi guy, I can tell you that I am GLAD there is a movement of guys NOT interested in the Gay movement...I APPLAUD this new movement and hope it will become a bit more inclusive, or have a bi like group spin off....We're out there...Hoorah for progress!
December 29, 2008 12:26 AM


Hey Buddy,

G0ys does include guys like you. There are many g0ys who identify as Heterosexual and Bisexual as well as Homosexual. In fact, more of our more active g0ys identify in the first two groups. I don't know where you got the idea that g0ys focus primarily on gay men. In reality, more bisexual men come to our movement than any other demographic. You are certainly welcome. You full post of Dec 29, 2008 here indicates quite clearly that you 'get it'.

SacGary said...

I wonder if there are any others out there that fell the way I do.

I have identified as Gay as long as I can remember, however I have never been effeminate. Anal sex is not my preference and in fact I have participated in it very little.

I do agree that we need to have some sort of unity.

We are trying too gain respect from society and win our freedoms, but then we throw huge parades for "Gay Pride" where a bunch of lunatics prance around in various stages of public nakedness, playing with dildos and other sex objects and acting like imbeciles!

What kind of a message are we sending to society? No wonder we have been fighting for equality and losing.

On a different note, we have within our community prejudices against our own kind. When a Gay man turns 40 it is as if life is over. None of the younger guys want anything to do with us, we are practically shunned by our own community and if we attempt to strike up a relationship with a younger guy we are ignored, ridiculed and chastised.

There is a lot of work ahead of us and if we continue upon paths that alienate us from society & from each other that task will be just that much more difficult and protracted.

Just my 2¢ worth.

Queers United said...

Gary - As in any community there is a diversity of preference. Some men like anal sex, some don't.

SacGary said...

Out of my entire post you found the anal sex...lol!

Queers United said...

I am just saying there are many elements in the community, some of whom run around naked publicly, and others who are very modest. We come in all flavors.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

What does diversity have to do with being attracted to the same sex? Why are specific behaviors like cross dressing and public lewdness considered "gay" attributes when they have nothing to do with sexual attraction?

Queers United said...

Ryan crossdressing should not be considered gay, as a matter of fact almost 90% of crossdressers identify as heterosexual. So as far as people who like the same-sex we have every kind of person on the planet represented among our kind.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

If that is the case, Queer United, then are cross-dressers or "drag queens" defended so religiously as gay? Why, when at "gay pride", can you expect to see drag queens, varying degrees of nudity, and acts that can only be construed as gender confusion portrayed as gay?

What excuse is there for attaching so much uncalled for stigma to having same-sex attractions?

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Edit: Then *why* are

Patrick93001 said...

...and of course, Ryan...once again, they have no answer. Or perhaps nobody heard the question:

If most drag queens aren't gay (90%); why are they so religiously defended as gay?

Why, when at "gay pride", can you expect to see drag queens, varying degrees of nudity, and acts that can only be construed as ***GENDER CONFUSION PORTRAYED AS GAY***?

What excuse is there for attaching so much uncalled for stigma to having same-sex attractions?


Patrick

logic said...

G0Ys = Guys who like guys but don't like anal.

Thats it.

Some might not like queens, but you can't say 'ALL' g0ys hate drag.. no it just means they dont DO drag

- logic

Anonymous said...

I think the issue with the g0ys is not that they don't like anal, but that they express specific hatred twords those who do. Look at the language they use to describe anal, and tell me there isn't a bit of aggression and even some dehumanizing at work. This group has a very cultish and secretive nature. The obsession with masculinity seems somewhat disturbing in that it include some very strong judgments about those who do not conform. This group has some very troubling ideas that make it sound like a full blown hate group.

Ryan ReBoRn said...

Because there isn't a cultish acceptance and defense of anal practices, hyper-feminism, and gender bending in the gay community, right? Please.

Randy said...

What you guys fail to realize is that g0ys are not hating gays we just do not espouse the label for ourselves because we do not identify with gay. We are not hating you guys from thew inside of your community since we are not part of your community. You guys want to have anal that is fine but do not expect a g0y to be interested in you or you to be interested in him. You like fems then go for it but do not expect to attract a g0y and do not expect to be attracted to a g0y. Mainly g0ys identify with the term becasue we read the website and say wow that is how I feel. if you read the website and where turned off then you are not g0y be happy and revel in your gayness. If you read it and identified with us then welcome to our club. I think that is clear enough. Peace out dude.

Gimmel Yod said...

The link called "NO APOLOGY" on the g0ys . org main website says it all about WHY g0ys loathe certain aspects of the so-called "gAy-male" community. And the fact that they cite several "gAy" resources to make their points is brutally telling about the bile of the gAy community itself! As made evident in this thread above: GAYS got no game! It's just soooo obvious!

Anonymous said...

I'm just learning about this "G0Y" movement. When i first heard the term "internalized homophobia" i thought now there is an invented term. You know who you are, so why hate yourself?
Slowly,i accepted it as a somewhat legitimate term. But what i will never accept is the term "straight acting". Now you can quote stonewall riots advanced the cause all you like, but there never can be a more prominent or completely out there production of an act than a hairy male in a wig and heels. Yes, not everybody is like this and maybe what is important exclusively to lesbians may not be to gay men, but we do love our labels! GLBIT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Inter-sexed, Transgendered) Wow, there is a lot there. Gay men and women are just Gay. Why shouldn't there be unity among Gay men and women without using the separatist term "lesbian"? To lesbian women have a need to be separate from their Gay brothers? Is that internalized sexism within the rank and file? Why not label bisexuals as freakishly wandering straights who can't get enough in their own camp and venture into the Gay one? As for inter-sexed and transgendered, well...i just don't have a clue as to how they fit in any camp other than their own. My point, we love labels, but that does nothing to embrace unity of all these different and sometimes vastly different sexual minorities. You can't possibly cover every preference under every color of the so-called rainbow flag. Feather boas and high heels can march wherever they want, but when you chant that we are normal just like everyone else, then ask yourselves this question. Would you bank somewhere where the teller was wearing a ski mask? Presentation says a lot about who you are. Heels and wigs on males (NOT MEN) says treat me delicately and give me protection.
Women have the courts and our kids by a large majority (gender equality...lol, hardly!), but as if we as men need to be brought down further by those that assault masculinity as pseudo-effeminate is just down right moronic and disgusting. Thanks for delaying full equality for the rest of us until when? the 50th. Century? Same-sex attracted, but not detracted from my manhood! From In-America.

Roberto said...

What the g0y movement is expressing, albeit poorly, is that sexual activity between consenting is not an open free for all but occurs in, for lack of a better term, layers of intimacy. One might enjoy nakedness and manual sex to orgasm, but not want to engage in oral sex. One might desire oral sex but not want penile penetration. As a man who has experienced being penetrated by another male a limited number of times I can say that unless one is well prepared and desirous of its taking place IT IS PAINFUL. With sincere desire, a gentle partner, and proper preparation, on the other hand, it can be amazing. I can't imagine being with someone who isn't clean, even for mutual masturbation-YUCK!

Is there degradation of men in male to male porn? Yes, there is, plenty of it. The mere absence of/abhorrence for anal penetration does not automatically bestow any degree of righteousness, humility, or worthiness on any self-identified g0y, or any of his sexual relationships.

Why not simply refuse labels? What I choose to do with a particular partner, at a given moment is not the sum total of my identity, it is a momentary expression of it. If I voluntarily choose to give myself to someone though allowing him to enter me, willingly, then how is that degrading? I have degraded myself in the past by allowing someone to take me in a way I did not truly wish to be taken. THAT is sad, and it should never happen to anyone, man, or woman.

The g0y movement is correct in stating that being a gay male is equated with engaging in anal penetration. That perception is false, and should be resisted, but dividing men who feel attraction for other men against each other is self-defeating, self-destructive, and self-loathing. Somewhere in the g0y movement, right now, are men who have experienced anal intercourse in a context of love, appreciation, warmth, and deep respect. Something they do as easily as exploring other ways of being sexually close? NO! But something they now must hide from their more 'enlightened' g0y brethren. From Gay, to G0y, to WTF now?

There are women who thought they loved only women who found love with a man, much to their surprise. There are men who have found love with a man, who otherwise are as straight as an arrow.

I get what the g0y movement is saying: The public perception of what is gay is skewed to the most extreme, outre` sexually obsessed caricature imaginable. Sexuality can be defined only in the broadest most general terms, so let's all stop making definitions into chasms

Ryan said...

What do you think referring to yourself as being "straight acting" is then? =/

Ghost said...

I think this is kinda more shameful. but its also a cry against stereotypes. They just take it wayyy to far. i consider myself more of a Paladin. I have same same attraction, but I also consider my life to be compatible with traditional society.But Im not going to criticize others for doing what's right for them.

Anonymous said...

I think that the g0y movement is for men who feel and identify with what is said within the movement.

I care nothing about politics or gay rights, I only want to meet a male partner who is like me, period.

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