Friday, November 7, 2008

Re-Open Proposition 8 Petition

Petition to Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to re-open proposition 8 for California. It lists the facts about marriage equality and counters the lies by the "yes on 8" campaign. At this time there are over 250,000 signatures and it is growing fast.


Anonymous said...

I wonder why Jack O'Connell turned down a perfect opportunity to debate this issue before Prop8 passed? Given all the confidence in these statements you'd think he would have jumped in and destroyed the Yes on 8 campaign. Too busy maybe?

Jeane said...

I cannot tell you how excited I am and everyone I know to have Obama as our next president. Many did not think they would see this in their lifetime, but for the courage of so many, the voices that would not be silenced and the silent peaceful resolve that would not rest, this country has moved from ignorance and hate and has elected brilliance and tolerance. I believe so deeply that this amazing man will not only change this country, but will change the world.

As a mother of three children, I am proud for this out pouring of unity, until I realize that many of the same people that voted for equal rights and voted to give even farm animals more rights voted that I would still be bond by law to sit at the back of the bus.

In your home, you are free to have any rules you want, but once you put your water fountain in a public park, all should have the right to drink from it. I have no intention of judging any religion. I realize that this is the most important thing in many lives. If marriage was only a religious ceremony, NO one would be asking for its legal rights to be for all. The Christian community in this country put marriage in the park so that this country would give it legal rights and recognition. They opened the door to allow all to drink from the fountain. Putting the “straights only sign" on this fountain in the same time that we have all come together to elect “change” is wrong. I have many Christian friends who I respect very much. I know that this did not come from hate, but rather a lack of information. Please allow some more information to open your mind and your heart. If your resolve is firm and unwavering then more information cannot hurt it.

thehostess said...

I'm setting up links to all this great info you've given. Thanks for getting all this info out there.

Kabaka said...

You're kidding right? The petition was held on November 5 and your side LOST. Get over it already!

3rdwitness said...

I don't think that blatant bias and social/legal/spiritual oppression is something one just "gets over". The discombobulated wording of that proposition is clear evidence of heavy handed and deliberate attempts to fog the issue so that those voting could scarcely even be able to understand what the heck it said. Voting yes to mean no and no to mean yes in anti-intuitive and guaranteed to garner a statistically significant number of errors on the part of voters. What was wrong with "can homosexual couples marry, yes or no"?

Not that this should even be something that one CAN vote on in a FREE COUNTRY {hint hint;IE NOT)but this was not a fair contest. Frankly, even if I was a homophobe I would prefer married couples to possibly rampantly promiscuous single people rife with moral turpitude engaging in high risk behaviors out of desperation and a need for acceptance. It is such that often encourages conclaves of minorities including gays, prone to high risk behaviors.

Look at this another way for a moment; For example, its often said that marijuana is a gateway drug, and so is horribly dangerous despite the bulk of apparent evidence to the contrary (for adults). However, I propose that its not the herb itself that is a gateway enabler, but the circumstances under which it must be acquired that is causing all the trouble. By making it illegal, users are forced underground to seek it in a black market where typically, certain types of people, all in the market for a profit, tend to also have other illegal substances and sundry items available; This contact facilitates exposure to drugs; access and acquisition is achieved right behind it. But if the marijuana was legal and grown in back yards or sold at the liquor store, the black market would dry up over night, and while they would have their marijuana,exposure and access would not be achieved in terms of drugs or other criminal elements.

Further, without that first temptation being satisfied in such a sordid circumstances, kids would be a lot less likely to get caught up with it because A. all the mystery is gone, so big deal and B. NO EXPOSURE< NO ACCESS. Have you heard of very many kids who started with cocaine or heroin? yeah, me niether...

Social acceptance of homosexuality works the same way. You make a big horrible deal out of it (while simultaneously visiting booby bars cheating on spouses and divorcing at rates over 50%) so it drives them underground, to special places meant just for them, where they are exposed to hardened degenerates that make it all about the body and trigger bouts of promiscuity almost as a rite of passage, and grow further away from social norms than just being gay could ever accomplish on its own power if it was accepted as a physiologically driven gender difference. If gay people were permitted to meet their partners in church instead of in a bar or at fire Island for example, maybe they'd be behaving more within accepted norms as a whole. If they didn't have to cloister themselves on one island here, one neighborhood there just to express their love for another human being in socially acceptable ways (holding hands, a little kiss or arm in arm etc), maybe they wouldn't. The temptation to shock and act out wouldn't even exist.

What are people afraid of? It hurts no one. I had a gay uncle who was obviously born that way...not a single one of nieces or nephews, brothers or sisters, friends or neighbors became gay because of him...because YOU ARE BORN THAT WAY. Our family accepted him and his partner by rote,it wasn't even a question because we love them. And guess what? They never did anything weird, they never made out at the dinner table. Judgment is God's job...

Further, stability and security provides healthier people, which provides additional homes for sick and abandoned children, socially conscious citizens that support the poor/needy, participate in local politics, volunteer and work for charities, and invariably keep a great house/yards ;-)weg... so they should be welcome in any neighborhood...not to mention being the life of any party I ever met one at...

this proposition is beyond stupid and hypocritical in the worst way. Speaking of which, Kabaka, you should practice what you preach; the California supreme court already overruled the last attempt to legalize hypocritical and arbitrary prejudice and YOUR side why didn't YOU get over it? You need to.

There is nothing worse than allegedly "moral' people breaking several commandments to achieve an end w/re:to judging another for a lesser infraction. In order to get behind this you have to ignore:
1.Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
2.Thou shalt not steal (their human rights) 3.Thou shalt not bear false witness (they are destroying marriage? LOL...gimme a break)
4. thou shall worship no other God before me (I don't know who you are worshiping but Jehovah/YHVH said quite succinctly through Christ's own words "judge NOT lest ye be judged", and 'he who is without sin, throw the first stone" and..shall I go on? That is not what is represented in those standing in judgment...and you know God's children by their fruit...if your fruit is contrary to God's will and Word, well guess what? you aren't worshiping God at all, you prophesy(speak) from your OWN heart.
5.The fact that love, caring for the poor and needy, imprisoned, widows/orphans etc covers a multitude of sins.
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Pe 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

6. thou shalt not covet (God's right to judge)

This country and its backward tendency toward bias and judgment has, with earlier bias, for years begged for such an action as a push for gay marriage. When we won't allow people to inherit money/goods, lifetimes worth of memories and keepsakes, or make medical decisions or even visit hospitalized partners because their partner was not their spouse, we left them no choice; when we won't allow good people who's sex lives are
1. none of our business
2. behind closed bedroom doors,
to adopt children because we disapprove of their physiological make up and won't allow singles to adopt anyway, we left them no choice. When we propagate and defend hate crimes, bias and inequity based on our own opinions of nothing more than who someone is ABLE to love, WE LEFT THEM NO CHOICE...If equitable treatment is out of the question even legally, with out that piece of paper, we've left them NO CHOICE.

So minds began to turn to marriage as a failsafe and once considered, the love took over and hey, who doesn't want to be as close as possible to the person who provides for them the very will to draw their next breath? I can remember trying to morph INTO the body of my greatest love...the barrier of flesh between our souls in those days was unbearable...Surely I am not the only one...others can identify..Is there really no compassion? Can those resisting the human rights of others really have no sense of nostalgia? No memory of those tender moments when love was your master and thinking had nothing to do with anything? That is the part that is hardest, beyond the hypocrisy, for me to understand...that lack of understanding and tolerance for those different than the average...

I don't think those people really do believe in God...or maybe they just don't understand him, but either way, by persisting in these judgments and oppressions they are asking for trouble when judgment day comes if they persist.

Civil Marriage has already been turned into merely a legal contract...period...People get married these days with the assurance that if they change their minds, they can divorce. The divorce rate is over 50% and growing...Allowing Gays to marry is not going to threaten it further; shoot for all we know, it might LOWER that high percentage when figured in over time.

I guess I can understand churches being unable to serve such a call, if they believe it leads them to participate in what they perceive to be sin when some would rather die than do so willingly, but there is no reason on the earth that any two adult human persons should not be able to commit to one another in a civil "marriage" ceremony. If marriage is truly holy and approved by God then the truth is anyone who married in a civil ceremony or didn't get married in an God-approved church (and you have to guess, there isn't a guide) isn't really married; Can't have it both ways...If its about God, then saying some words to a couple and signing some papers won't make it real in terms of in the eyes of God anyway...A holy ceremony would be necessary, not a civil one that doesn't mention God...So what is the problem? If God does not approve, he will deal with it...of course, if God does not approve of our coveting the right to judge, he'll take care of that too...won't he...

As far as God goes, because this apparently the stated root (excuse) of the problem, lets just get down to brass tacks and ask the question, who the hell do any of you in conflict with personal freedoms God laid before us think you are to butt in and try to do God's job? Even HE doesn't butt in...Free will I think they call it...sort of like giving us enough rope to hang ourselves...but so he did and if we don't hurt others etc, that is our right, our choice, our make those choices so that we can be weeded out as necessary when the time comes.

God said, if they won't listen, let them forbear...(go their own way)... Eze 3:11 And go, get thee to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people, and speak unto them, and tell them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear.
Eze 3:27 But when I speak with thee, I will open thy mouth, and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; He that heareth, let him hear; and he that forbeareth, let him forbear: for they are a rebellious house.

If one wants to impose anything at all on others, it should not go beyond the literal (you don't get to interpret) Word of God...You share the Word of God and go your way;you do not judge them...they get to decide whether or not to listen to you, and if their actions are not hurting anyone's life,health or property, then that is the end of your job...go your way and leave it to YHVH...Since Christ, punishments for carnal, diverse washings, food and drink are no longer applicable

Heb 9:8[....]while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and CARNAL ORDINANCES, IMPOSED ON THEM UNTIL THE TIME OF THE REFORMATION"

So its all so much grist for the mill anyway...a waste of your time and against God's will to be punitive and controlling once Christ was risen...those cocky judgments...judgment will only truly be conducted once and its between YOU AND GOD ...period.Anyone down here passing judgment WILL find that they themselves are at the business end of harsher judgments when the rubber finally REALLY hits the road.

If he's of a mind to, God'll take care of it all when he's good and ready...along with all those judgmental straights who fornicated outside of marriage and never repented, or who lied, or stole, or gossiped, or cheated on your spouse or taxes, coveted your neighbor's Lexus or did something questionable for money or even voted for the "lesser evil" instead of fighting for a "non evil" to vote for or writing in a good person etc.

As you were voting on this issue, did you consider all your judgments, selfishness, the times you spit "get a job" out from under your breath as you passed by a destitute person? Or spent 10 K on a cruise in the middle of winter when people were freezing to death from lack of funds to eat or heat their homes? Uh huh...narrow focuses are really dangerous...

I think that if we do this much, then maybe there should be laws about that too if we're going to cherry pick things out of the bible to punish and control people over...why don't we start with the ten commandments, which mentions hetero cheats but not word one about homosexuals in the ten...not a word. lets make a law that says if you cheat or divorce for less than abuse or fornication, you can never remarry...Bible says more marrying...
and if you do,you and the one you marry are ADULTERERS (that is one of the big ten y'all)and such are the REAL threats to marriage, I might add... while we are at it, lets make a special law for hypocrites (God has)...lets make sure that those caught doing any version of what they have judged and slandered others over have bout that? I like that one a LOT...

Sound ridiculous? Well then...come on is ridiculous...but not nearly as ridiculous trying to legislate love, morality, choice, commitment etc or create special laws to control the personal actions and lives of only particular citizens based on VERY subjective cherry picking through the bible.

There are approximately three verses (easy to find ones anyway) in the bible that mention homosexual behavior (sexual, not marriage etc);others if you consider the scripture w/re:to eunuchs, some of God's favorite people....

Dan 1:9 Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.

one can BE gay w/out the first hint of sin, the love is perfectly acceptable:

Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

its only the behavior that was ever under question, not the condition, not the love... It would seem that God doesn't look at the condition in the same way many people do today.

The greatest commandment is mentioned in Matthew): 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

It seems to me, any Christian w/an eye toward preserving their own souls would do well to take their attention and effort off that splinter perceived to be in the eye of homosexuality/marriage and focus on trying to adhere to the greatest of all commandments;which btw, it would seem, more than merely suggests that it is love, not judgment, that is the first priority, the first commandment and the first principle of God.

Finally, people need to wrap their minds around the FACT that the horrors of the bible, the death, the prophecy, all that, are not threats...they are WARNINGS. God is telling us what is going to happen, has to happen, evil cannot persist in his presence and he's coming certain things will naturally take place...others have more to do with recompense and avenging the innocent...but telling us about it is not a threat, its an effort to convince us to come to safety, find love which will lead to truth.

Faith in the techniques of persecution and shunning and an accompanying dedication to disrupt the lives of others based on arbitrary judgments imposed by flawed creatures with the audacity to point dirty fingers at wrinkled shirts, has nothing to do with love.

By preventing legal access to a partner and shared wealth (whether literal or by agreement, as in a marriage where one partner makes all the money)this society left the gay community no choice but to fight for those basic rights in the first place. If accommodations had been made long ago when this became a public issue, it would never have come this far. Leave judgment where it belongs or be prepared for some good old fashioned "backlash" Toyota says, you asked for got it...

if they want a civil marriage ceremony, let them have it, it has nothing to do with religion anyway, and lets face it, its not as if the religious [??? bet less than 20% have even read the bible] heteros have done such a bang up job preserving the values of marriage or keeping it "holy";Few people truly respect it as such,civil ceremonies are literally godless aren't they? so what's to defend or protect? What do people imagine will happen?

There must be something more to this than is obvious...I don't get it. Does gay marriage screw Rockefeller out of a profit somehow or something? lol.

good parting words straight from the scripture for you judgy types...
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

Please note who God compares you to...and consider rethinking your position.

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