Wednesday, December 17, 2008

Request For "Common Ground" Between Mormons & Gays

Leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the Mormons) entered the political arena and drew the ire of LGBT rights groups when they encouraged members of the Church to play a lead role in the campaign to pass Prop. 8 in California.

Yet, Church leaders have insisted all along that they're not "anti-gay" or opposed to civil unions and other LGBT rights – they say they're just against marriage for same-sex couples.

Well, our friends at Equality Utah are giving them the perfect opportunity to prove it:

Sign on to HRC's letter to President Monson of the LDS Church – ask him to publicly support civil unions and other pro-equality legislation in the Church's home state of Utah.

17 comments:

Scot said...

"Well, our friends at Equality Utah are giving them the perfect opportunity to prove it:"

I've worked a lot with Equality Utah and think this is very reasonable step for us here, but I fear the LDS leaders don't ultimately care about proving those words. In response to the "Common Grounds" bills, LDS spokespeople have already back away from civil unions and the other "certain rights" they said they weren't against when they were looking for support for Prop 8.

Can't hurt to petition them, but prospects for our families don't look good here in Utah this legislative season. I hope my pessimism is proven wrong, though.

Anonymous said...

Queers United you need to get your facts straight. The LDS Church did not play a lead role in the passing of prop 8 as you imply in your statement "members of the Church to play a lead role in the campaign to pass Prop. 8 in California." Fact check, their are 35 million people in CA and 750,000 are LDS, so that is 2%. About 250,000 LDS members are registered to vote in CA, assuming they all voted and all voted yes on Prop 8, the LDS members only made up 4.4% of the yes vote (5,661,583 voted yes on 8) More Latinos and Blacks (70% of Blacks voted yes on 8) voted yes on 8. I understand it is more socially accepted to bash on the LDS Church than to bash the Black community or the HIspanic Community, but get you facts straight when doing so.

jaysays said...

Anonymous - I think you need a fact check. It's not the number of LDS people in California, it's the amount of money and advertising the church put into California (43% of the total money raised). It wasn't the number of voter's it was the over 8 million dollars.

Also, you may want to take a look around the blogosphere as the black and Hispanic votes have been discussed in detail causing much debate and criticism.

Anonymous said...

Jaysays firstly i am responding to the post, where it states states that the LDS church played a lead role in passing prop 8. That is unequivocally false. Like I stated in my earlier post, Church members made up less than 5% of the yes on 8 vote. Also a total of 36 million dollars was raised for the yes on 8 campaign, 2 million less than the no on 8 campaign. So the 8 million dollars SUPPOSEDLY donated by people who happen to be LDS is 20% of the total money donated. That is not playing a lead role, that is participating with other organizations of faith, religions and individuals who want to keep MARRIAGE as it has been since the founding of our nation between one man and one woman. And as typical with this site, you seem to not understand, the Church donated $0, so stop throwing that around when it is well known the LDS Church donated nothing and it's members donated money.
Maybe other blogs point out that more Hispanics and Blacks voted in favor of Prop 8 than did LDS People, but not on this blog. There are countless numbers of lies and misrepresentation of facts about the LDS Church on this website. When I read a post that talks about the majority of people who actually voted to pass prop 8,like the Blacks and Hispanics, I will rest my case, until then I will continue to point out that the gay community is barking up the wrong tree and just trying to start more controversy. Interesting how a group who unfortunately has been so demonized and victimized for centuries would impose the same exact thing on Mormons (or anyone else who supported prop 8) simply for being different and not thinking or wanting the same thing you do. It seems the gay community should take a little walk back in time and remember what it felt like to have lies said about them, and maybe they would stop doing it to the LDS community.

Natasha Yar-Routh said...

Anonymous - The 70% figure for the black vote has been thoroughly discredited. The Catholic Church and the LDS were the big money contributors to the yes on 8 campaign and so rightfully have drawn a lot of ire.

Equality Utah is now calling LDS's bluff. They are giving them a chance to prove they aren't theocratic thugs. My bet is for theocratic thug.

Anonymous said...

Thoroughly discredited by whom? I have no problems repeating again that the LDS Church gave no money to PROP 8. Equality Utah is not wanting the LDS Church to meet them on some common ground, they are saying our way or the high way and we will make a media circus out of it. If you want common ground, lets start by having the gay community come out and say we realize that the reason members of the LDS Church will not support homosexual marriage is because every report shows that children do better in a heterosexual union of one mom and one dad. Start their with common ground, that will get you a lot further.

Queers United said...

Actually every study shows children raised by LGBT families do great, you couldn't cite a non-biased study if you tried. Go preach to the klan, this is an equality-driven website, you won't find any followers for your bigoted agenda here.

Anonymous said...

It is interesting that you never respond to a comment that shows that maybe you are just a little off. You only have your eyes open a little bit to see what you want and if it does jive with your views, you don't see it one bit and you say it is wrong. Take a stand and look at your positions and look at the posts and then articulate a response that has to do with the post. Instead you just ramble.

Scot said...

Anon--"the Church donated $0"

That's not true. They donated on the order of a couple thousand; not much, though. The issue is in telling people that donating to this was second only to tithing, telling people to "do all they can", telling people they'd be rewarded supernaturally for doing so in that broadcast sent to LDS university students. It is dishonest to say the LDS aren't responsible for a great deal of the organization and advertising dollars behind Prop 8, just because they didn't directly write much of a check.

I read their press releases and got the LDS chain e-mails. The LDS put a lot of work into this and were very important in turning a 17 point lead into a a slim loss. Why not take some credit? They got what they expressly wanted anyway, and saying others did the same thing is no excuse anyway. Even if this was a lie, how can you compare it to some of the stuff LDS told about gays? I mean, no gay father wants to be a bad father but the LDS wanted Prop 8 to pass.

"Maybe other blogs point out that more Hispanics and Blacks voted in favor of Prop 8 than did LDS People, but not on this blog."

The key here is that being black is not like choosing to be in and sustain a religion, right? Black gay people were fighting for equal rights for their families, and they had no conflict with their chosen leadership, as a LDS person would have. Religion is simply not race.

"Interesting how a group who unfortunately has been so demonized and victimized for centuries would impose the same exact thing on Mormons (or anyone else who supported prop 8) simply for being different and not thinking or wanting the same thing you do."

You honestly think that? This had nothing to do with being different or how you think. Think whatever you want. It's what the LDS did to their neighbors that has people upset.

Prop 8 hurt many people in legal terms, gay couples and their children. My marriage of 13 years is again in legal limbo, and now even a repeal of DOMA won't help us. Furthermore, the LDS, where they are undeniably the political power here in Utah, constantly fights against equal rights under any name.

Really, you don't remember gays being demonized by LDS leaders? You don't remember our unions being called satanically inspired? Remember how often our children have been posed as socially defective by the LDS reasoning for measures like prop 8?

You can't hit a man's family and then call yourself a "victim" if he complains. The LDS church attacked our most sacred of institutions and legally harmed the most precious people in our lives and speaking out against that is a reasonable consequence (though I'd agree any violence should be off limits to both sides).

"Start their with common ground, that will get you a lot further."

Now that's what I'd call interesting. You spread lies and insults about a man's home and you don't see it? That's really the common ground to your mind?

Q.U. is right, you are absolutely unsupported by the data.

(Q.U., please, forgive the essay :-))

Queers United said...

Scot, please rant away as much as you want, you are absolutely right. I usually don't have the stamina or patience to argue with these people even though science is clearly on our side. It is good we got people like you to put them in their place, in a nice way of course :)

CJ said...

Oh, Anonymous, take a goddamn Midol and get the hell over it. FSM does not enjoy seeing His Noodly Subjects behaving in such a constipated manner!

T. R Xands said...

I think it says more about Anon that s/he'd rather we shift the blame to Blacks and Latinos than focus on the Church. I can't put my finger on it though. I can't imagine what that says about this lost child...

And, coincidentally this Daily Show re-run is talking about the "blame blacks meme"...oh well...

Anonymous said...

It it entirely inaccurate that I think the blame should be placed upon the Black and Latinos communities. I am simply putting out that the gay community is picking and choosing who they blame and then making up false stories about the LDS Church, only because that gains more traction that telling the truth that the black community and the hispanic community and members of the Catholic Church participated far more than the LDS Church did on passing prop 8. It's an honesty issue.

Erik Granlund said...

I find the religious people calling themselves the victims now an amusing thought.

It's just another excuse for them to hate "the gays".


I personally, and probably most of the lgbt community don't really hate the Mormons, or any other religious power, we just wish they would stay out of our lives. Also, if they are going to go on saying that they're not antigay, I want them to prove it, as that was one of the arguments in their campaign against us.

Saying that we should be outraged about the black vote on prop 8 is absurd, being black doesn't mean that you follow a certain belief system, being mormon, or any other religion however, does.

Anonymous said...

Erik, you can say you do not hate the LDS Church or other religious groups, but your words and you actions speak far louder. Don't be so hypocritical, you have not stayed out of the lives of LDS Members, protesting outside their temples. You obviously will not agree with me, but LDS Church members intentions were not to take anything away, rather protect their values, familys, school systems, etc.,

CJ said...

"...LDS Church members intentions were not to take anything away, rather protect their values, familys, school systems, etc."


And so are the protests of mormon temples!

Hypocrite, much?

You are wrong about everything, Anonymous. Just go back to failing at life.

barefootguy said...

You want evidence of LDS harm to gays and lesbians, anonymous? Check out this lovely list of Mormons, mostly male, who KILLED THEMSELVES because of the intractable pressure and bullying placed on them by their beloved church. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. When people stop not only saying terrible things about us, but also physically injuring and killing us, or creating so much mental anguish that we commit suicide, then we will stop our fight. Until that time, you have no place here. We are human beings and citizens in the fullest sense of the word, and are tired of having our lives belittled and our hopes and dreams quashed by intolerant, hateful people.

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